Foxes are a major reason for the hedgehog decline

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[Derek]

Urban Foxes have become a major danger to hedgehogs

The numbers of urban foxes are out of control. They have become increasingly vicious, fearless and aggressive.

We previously thought that hedgehogs would be safe from foxes and only the occasional baby or weak hedgehog was preyed upon. Experiences over the last couple of years has taught us differently.


Foxes have learned how to grab hold of and maim or kill hedgehogs.  What happens is:
   

• The fox pounces on a hedgehog which curls up on contact.
• The fox freezes and stays perfectly still about 2 foot away from the rear of the hedgehog.
• The hedgehog hearing nothing, thinks it is safe and slowly uncurls. As it puts its back legs out to run the fox springs, grabs the hedgehog's back legs with its long snout and bites and twists & throws the hedgehog up in the air.
• An adult hedgehog will curl up again but the damage has already been done, in a split second the fox's sharp strong teeth make deep slashes into the flesh and break and crush the bones or bite the leg off completely. The hedgehog will be left screaming and crippled to die in agony from its injuries.
• A small or weak hedgehog won't be able to curl up quickly enough and the fox will bite the underneath and eviscerate the hedgehog (rip out its guts).
• Foxes are not even afraid of dogs any more. Instead of running away they turn and fight and even attack the dogs

How have we come to this conclusion?

We didn't wake up one morning and suddenly decided to hate foxes.

We have been puzzled since we started in 2002 by unexplained injuries on hedgehogs. Neither we nor the vets could understand why there has been a major increase in the number of badly injured or broken back legs from a very wide area
Over  the last few years there has been a dramatic increase in the numbers of hedgehogs brought to us or to the local vets with broken, badly cut or severed back legs, some with jagged bones sticking out. We are now seeing at least 12 to 15 every month

A lot of the injuries never looked like obvious bites and they all came from places with no obvious dangers.
Over the last year we had about 20 hedgehogs that had been released in our back garden come back with these strange injuries and despite searching everywhere could find no obvious cause.

It all came to a head about 8 weeks ago when we had 4 hedgehogs in our enclosed garden with the same injuries, massive deep cuts to the back legs and broken bones. The cuts were high up on the back of the legs. 3 of them had to be put down. One ( Twiglet) had an amputation and we found a safe home for her.
One of the ones that were put down was an adult girl between 1 & 2 years old weighing 1.2kg.

We thought that the only cause could have been the hedgehogs attempting to climb the shrubbery and falling and getting caught on the branches, which was extremely unlikely, but there was nothing else even vaguely possible. At the same time one hedgehog vanished and although we were almost certain that it couldn't have climbed out assumed it must have managed to. We know now it must have been taken by the fox.

This shows that foxes don't just attack babies and young, weak or ill hogs
 
We stopped using the closed garden and went through it with a fine tooth comb, making sure it was 100% secure, that there was absolutely nothing a hedgehog could climb on or injure itself on and installed a CCTV camera to monitor it.

This week we put 3 young hedgehogs in there to build up before release. The first night we heard an almighty scream, looked on the camera monitor and saw the fox which had grabbed one hedgehog and had bitten it underneath. The fox dropped the hedgehog when we turned on the floodlight and immediately went for another hedgehog who had been curled up but had decided to make a run for it. The fox pounced and grabbed the back leg. Immediately the hedgehog curled up, forcing the fox to drop it as the spines went into the fox's face. The damage had already been done though with a gash round the knee area and the leg broken. Once again it didn't look like a bite wound.

All this happened in less than 2 minutes. From the time we first heard the scream at about 4am and rushed out to the garden, the fox escaped over the fence and 2 hedgehogs were fatally injured. The girl had her stomach ripped open and her guts hanging out and was screaming. The boy was tightly curled up screaming in pain. They both went immediately to the vet hospital where the girl was put down and we tried to repair the boy's damaged leg with a splint and bandages. Despite treatment it wouldn't repair so later in the week it was decided to amputate but unfortunately he didn't survive the operation and died under the anaesthetic.

All our hard work in rearing the babies was for nothing. They had a couple of hours of partial freedom before suffering a horrendous fate.

Since we started in 2002, we have treated and reared about 800 hedgehogs. Over 600 survived and we thought were released safely, some in our garden and some in what we hoped were safe places.   

We can no longer safely release any hedgehogs anywhere near us and we cannot use our enclosed garden. We see no way of being able to continue. There is no point in rearing hedgehogs from a few days old, keeping them for several weeks or months and then releasing them just so they can be killed or maimed within a few hours or a couple of days by a fox.

Almost all the disabled hedgehogs we have rehomed with amputated legs had injuries consistent with fox attacks. All the injuries had an almost identical pattern. 

What is so upsetting is the fox isn't desperate for food. It ignores the food being put out for it and goes for a hedgehog that you would think would be protected by its spines. Anybody would think that once a fox had had a faceful of spines it would have learnt its lesson and not attempt to kill hedgehogs, but they don't. Once they master the technique of catching a hedgehog, (and foxes learn this very quickly) the hedgehogs stand no chance of survival

With its acute sense of hearing, the fox can locate small mammals in thick grass and undergrowth, and jumps high in the air to pounce on the prey. The foxes also stalk prey keeping hidden until close enough to catch them in a short dash. They are opportunistic feeders that hunt live prey, using a pouncing technique practiced from an early age. Its teeth are strong allowing the fox to crack open bone to reach the marrow

Foxes are canids ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canidae ) and one of their behaviours is to catch, kill and store food

In recent years the Urban Fox population has become out of control. Their numbers have increased because of the amount of food readily available to them: for example fast food thrown on the street, People feeding them, black bags and rubbish left out.

Over the last 18 months or so, since the Local Councils have introduced Wheelie Bins and they can't rake through the rubbish so easily, the fox's behaviour has changed. They attack hedgehogs, both big and small. More and more reports from vets say that cats and small dogs are being attacked by foxes. They are also no longer scared of the big dogs. They turn and fight and do not run away.

In almost any city or town all over the country you see foxes running up and down the pavements all day and all night long. London and its suburbs absolutely full of them. They are now a common sight in broad daylight

The foxes are mopping up one by one the very few hedgehogs left alive that we humans haven't managed to kill off.

My wife and I started looking after hedgehogs in 2002. We gave up our lives to save theirs. No one forced us to. We chose to do it.  And we are OK with that.
We spend everything on them and have built up debts to help them survive. And we are OK with that.
But to save hedgehogs and release them just to give foxes something to kill! This is something we are not OK with.

The hedgehogs' existence has come under a multi-pronged attack. They simply cannot win the battle to survive.  By the way things are going, very soon the only wildlife left will be foxes and rats. Therefore we CANNOT and WILL NOT with a clear conscience declare that urban foxes are harmless. Foxes certainly are NOT the innocent, sweet, cuddly, Disney-like characters some people seem to think they are. The toll the foxes take on the hedgehog population is enormous.


There are very strict laws about catching, trapping or deterring foxes. If you have a fox problem ask for advice on http://foxolutions.co.uk/

[jimmy h]

so sad to hear that derek,death to all foxes from now on,i took advice from this site and built a feeding station with perspex roof,its working brill, last night i had torres at one bowl and fox at other,they didnt seem to mind each other but im not taing any chances,as i speak ive got gerrard the bigger hoggie using the feeder now, here is pic taken five mins ago,
                     jimmy

[susancee]

It is so sad but so very true, Derek, about rogue foxes. Some have turned into ruthless predators just killing for the sake of it.   
Ourselves and the neighbours lost a number of cats, chickens and rabbits to just such a fox some years ago, living in the country then he was persued and shot. I am not a advocator of shooting or hunting, am a conservationist and hate cruelty, but just like people who do wrong there are also 'wrong-uns' in the animal kingdom when something has to be urgently done.
Derek this is so devastating and distressful for you, I do hope and pray you find a solution.
We have a major rat problem around here and as soon as we have dispatched with one then more come along, living under the decking in the houses either side of me, they cannot co-exist in my garden with the grandchildren
Someone previously mentioned lion's dung as a derterrent for foxes I know some garden centres sell it around here, whether it is any good or not I do not know
Hopefully Jimmy your fox is not of the same ilk.
Sue x

[Derek]

Jimmy

Please don't stop feeding the fox, carry on feeding it as normal because if it gets hungry, it will attack Torres and Gerrard


As long as you feed the foxes they are not hungry and the hedgehogs will be fairly OK. The problem is that more food = more foxes.

The abundance of food leads to more breeding and more foxes and therefore more demand on food and it is a vicious circle. The more you feed them, the more they breed. The more they breed and the numbers go up, the more food is needed and you will never be able to keep up with feeding the ever increasing number of foxes

There will always be some hungry and therefore aggressive foxes that will attack hedgehogs. On the other hand by not feeding them at all, they'll become hungry, desperate and very aggressive and definitely attack the hedgehogs.

I know it's a close call and a knife-edge decision, where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't .

In an Urban area foxes have such small territories that overlap and food sources get shared, with hungry foxes attracted to the food source.

What is the solution to the dilemma?

The aim must be to reduce the number of existing foxes.

I do strongly question why many places raise fox cubs for release or treat injured foxes that are then released, so continually increasing their numbers and exacerbating the problem.


So Jimmy, what do I advise you to do?

Most definitely, the moment you stop feeding the fox it will turn and attack anything that moves, that means the hedgehogs. Ideally trap and dispose of it

It is no point in chasing or trying to scare the fox away. It just won't work. They are territorial and always return.

At the moment, continue to feed the fox but well away from the hedgehog feeding area so you do not endanger the hedgehogs

[Derek]

In many towns and cities, especially London,  it has been estimated that there are more than 20 foxes per square mile. In the country a single fox might have a territory of at least 2 square miles.

The areas with the largest numbers of foxes are the areas I get the most calls from, saying they have no hedgehogs in their gardens and asking for hedgehogs to be released there.

You have to look at the massive decline in the numbers of hedgehogs over the same period of time that there has been an enormous increase in the numbers of urban foxes ( the last 20 years or so)  and ask yourself " What is the connection?"

I feel quite sure there is a direct connection

Urban conditions are ideal for foxes. There is plenty of food and shelter. Walls and fences are no barriers to foxes who jump and climb easily.

On the other hand the same Urban conditions are a major problem for hedgehogs.

Fences are solid and go deep into the ground. Hedgehogs cannot dig under them or climb over them. So overall there is a huge area that is completely unavailable to them. The hedgehog-friendly gardens are few and far between and only offer a minuscule area compared to the massive areas that hedgehogs have been excluded from.   

[jimmy h]

hi derek,thx for the advice,i,ll still put some food out for the fox but well away from hoggies,its such a shame they cant coexist,but i prefer my hoggies,
              all the best jimmy,

[Alison]

This is really really scary. My first reaction when I read it was 'Oh Sh*t'.

One of my neighbours says she sees a fox in her garden every night. I usually only see them around November time when the weather starts to get colder, and then it's generally just one which disappears again after a few days when it realises there is nothing to eat in my garden that it can get at. At least, that is what it thinks so far and I seriously hope the the local foxes don't start going for the hogs. I've never seen fox and hogs in the garden at the same time so I don't know how the local foxes react to hogs. I do find dead birds (or, more often, just loads of feathers) on my lawn sometimes but there are a lot of cats about. You have got me wondering what happened to the badly injured hog I found a few weeks ago with an almost severed (front) leg. I still think that's most likely to have been netting or similar but who knows?

As if the poor hedgehogs don't have enough to contend with already. I fervently hope that you just have a rogue animal but realistically if that fox has learned to go after hogs then I guess it's only a matter of time before others start doing it. What on earth can we do? Even a 'safe' garden will get fox visitors sooner or later, probably, and trapping foxes and releasing them somewhere else (which isn't a feasible option for me anyway) is just moving the threat from one place to another. This is awful.

Having said all that, Derek you say: "I do strongly question why many places raise fox cubs for release or treat injured foxes that are then released [...]". I guess they do it because all animals have a right to life and it is not up to us to judge which species we should save and which we should not. To just save those which are 'harmless', and leave others to suffer and die, would put them in a very difficult position ethically. I *know* that humans are largely responsible for the explosion in the urban fox population but that doesn't give us the right to kill them, or to let them die if they are sick or injured, when we would intervene and treat other animals. Where do you draw the line?

Alison

[paulinemiller10]

I remember you saying about the injured legs some time ago Derek, and I asked then could there be somewhere that hoggies were getting their legs stuck in a fence somewhere, so its been the foxes causing all these injury's, but I m wondering if it may have been just one that has learned to attack them, it may have been a mother with young, if they are starving they will take huge risks, and it has learned the knack of catching hedgehogs, it may have also taught its young, and there could be quite a few running around with this knowledge, but it could be a rare thing that has happened around your way, I ve watched a fox on my cam last year in my drive, and I was worried as Megan had babes at the time, and then I see her walking towards the feeder, she saw fox, walked around past his face and into her feeding box, the fox took no notice, and she was’ nt bothered,  I often visit a live cam at ukgardenwildlife, and I have often seen hoggy and fox eating together many times, and they don t seem bothered by each other .http://www.ukgardenwildlife.co.uk/

It is heartbraking to find the hoggies you have saved and cared for have been released fit and well only to find them later with these injury’s, it was lucky you saw the fox in your garden, or the mystery could have gone on for years.
Most things we come up against feeding hedgehogs can be sorted, but I don t think there is a lot you can do, it will not be safe to release any hoggies into the wild from your garden, if its possible to put a high wire fence around part of your garden, you may be able to use it as a run before releasing somewhere else.

It looks like our poor hedgehogs are finding it harder each day to live, I have made a special place for mine, and they know its their safe place where there is always food, a warm bed and water, they have been using it most of the summer, they don t eat much, they prefer their own live food this time of year, but they always have a drink and use the beds, but I have seen no young, and I just feel they are not doing so well this year, I have been feeding them for many years now and the numbers are not increasing, we’r all fighting to keep these lovely animals, but it seems to just get harder each day with new problems.  Pauline.

[Judi Hewitt]

Oh dear, the poor old fox gets in the neck again - as if they don't have enough to contend with. Makes you wonder what the poor hedgehogs did before Tiggywinkles and those other wildlife rescue centres popped up?
Mind you, what most of you lot know about foxes could be written on a match box.
Selective compassion springs to mind, and just maybe a little bias in favour of hunting with dogs.
What a contrast this website is to all those other smaller rescue centres who care about all animals, not just the prickly ones.
By the way, there are a lot more predators out there ready to kill a hedgehog, including weazles, stoats and many more. But since the hunting ban, all you pretend animal lovers out there will say anything to make foxes the villain.
By the way, do you lot eat meat? If so, then you are all hypocrits. Why not check out the suffering at animal markets and the slaughter-house. Now that's suffering!
Leave the fox alone!!!! The only vermin in this world are so called human beings.
 

[Tina F]

I couldn't agree more, Judi.  For Fox Sake, what will it be next?  Kill all the birds because they're eating the hedgehogs' worms and caterpillars in your gardens? 

[SPR]

Here we go again lets blame the fox. According to the EXPERTS hedgehog decline is due to loss of habitat and food supply NOT THE URBAN FOX.  I have 2 dogs both of which I adore. Millie has a sweet nature and wouldn't hurt a fly. Bonnie on the other hand would give chase to any insect, rabbit, hedgehog, fox, or cat that moved. Its the same with all species including man there is always a rogue. That doesn't mean we condemn the whole species. Could it be that baby hogs raised by you become tame and loose their fear instinct? If I meet a hedgehog it curls into a ball and stays that way. A hog has a VERY GOOD sense of smell and if they can smell me I'm dammed sure they know the fox is behind them!! I thought you were a caring person. I'm sorry as well as disappointed that you feel the need the question other rescue centres motives. Their hard work and dedication should be respected.

[Alison]

In defence of Derek and others on this board, nobody is seriously advocating murdering foxes. (Even the comment by Jimmy of 'death to all foxes' is not to be taken entirely literally I don't think).

Derek is reporting what he has seen with his own eyes. He is obviously, and understandably, extremely upset at what has happened. He is a very caring person and as you can see from other parts of this website cares about the welfare of all sorts of animals. However the topic of this forum is hedgehog welfare so obviously that is where the 'bias' lies and if there appears to be an emerging threat, or even of a threat of a threat, to hedgehogs then this is a sensible place to tell people about it and discuss it. In the same way that you (Judi, Tina and SPR) clearly feel very strongly about foxes, we on this forum feel very strongly about hedgehogs and sometimes if one of these carers, many of whom as Derek has said devote their entire lives to looking after hedgehogs - a species in grave danger of extinction in the UK - has a distressing experience such as this, they are bound to be very emotional about it. Give the man a break.

I don't recall anybody on this site ever advocating hunting with dogs, quite the opposite, and people have spoken in defence of foxes many times.

Alison

[Tina F]

Hi Alison, I feel 'very strongly' about hedgehogs (as I'm sure Judi and SPR do too)! I've been rescuing/overwintering hedgehogs for several years now.  On several occasions I've witnessed a hedgehog circling a fox, while it was feeding in my garden! And on many many occasions, I've witnessed my old arthritic cat chase the terrified fox out of my garden. 

As animal lovers, our feelings for all animals should be unconditional.

[timmoore46]

Gutted to hear the news as we have seen foxes in the garden a year or so ago.

Being in a rural location the 'lampers' help keep the foxes down because of the lambs.  Typically 60 to 80 foxes a year per good (?) Lamper.

So hope this horror does not come here !  Badgers are bad enough.

A very sad,

Tim

[Tina F]

As far as I’m aware (and somebody please correct me if I’m wrong), deterring foxes is a similar concept to deterring feral pigeons…..  Slaughtering either species when their numbers become too large is ineffective as their numbers are determined by how much food is available.  When foxes (or feral pigeons) are slaughtered, the survivors do not leave the area.  On the contrary, they are then left with more food than before and populations are re-established very quickly.  An effective long-term reduction of either species can be achieved by restricting/stopping food supply.  Obviously, this is not a viable option if you want to continue feeding and caring for hedgehogs, so another less drastic, but very effective, option to deter foxes (not pigeons!) is to erect some ‘unstable’ plastic mesh-type trellis to the top of your fencing/wall.

[Tina F]

As far as I’m aware (and somebody please correct me if I’m wrong), deterring foxes is a similar concept to deterring feral pigeons…..  Slaughtering either species when their numbers become too large is ineffective as their numbers are determined by how much food is available.  When foxes (or feral pigeons) are slaughtered, the survivors do not leave the area.  On the contrary, they are then left with more food than before and populations are re-established very quickly.  An effective long-term reduction of either species can be achieved by restricting/stopping food supply.  Obviously, this is not a viable option if you want to continue feeding and caring for hedgehogs, so another less drastic, but very effective, option to deter foxes (not pigeons!) is to erect some ‘unstable’ plastic mesh-type trellis to the top of your fencing/wall.

[P.S.  Derek, may I ask what you propose to do with the fox when/if you catch it in your trap? ]

[timmoore46]

A Farming solution is to use an electric fencing unit which offers 5500 pulsed volts to a conducting wire or tape.

Add that to all possible entry points to a garden and all may be well ! (Even if you never get another letter delivered from a 'shocked'  Postie !  *LOL* )

A 5 inch square tunnel at least a foot long, maybe 1 1/2 feet can allow hedgehogs in and out but cats, foxes and badgers don't use them much.

Very expensive but not much else does the job.

Any agricultural merchant will have the kit and Ebay offers a choice.

That makes the garden safer and a local 'Lamper' is the other half of the solution.

It's a very rough world out there.



Tim

[Hedgehogirl]

Hi all!
There is a really good video on Foxes that I would like to share with you all.
I watched it on YouTube about a year ago now and have watched it twice all the way through since.
It is full of facts about Urban Foxes, which were filmed in London.
There are 2 sides, for Foxes or against.
This video looks at both sides of the argument and films people going to efforts to try and 'get rid' of Foxes from their gardens.
There are many ideas that you can get from this video, and humanely do something about the population.
It looks at 1 Fox family, and shows the dangers that they face, it shows you that the mother and the farther of the family were shot etc.
It has a sad ending.
But the point is, is to try and help people understand them, and of cause this video gives facts and figures out.
Just watch it and see what you think:

It is in 6 parts

Part1:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/xa1GhdUqrnQ&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/xa1GhdUqrnQ&rel=0</a>

Part 2:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/i7XXEnsY_kc&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/i7XXEnsY_kc&rel=0</a>

Part3:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/WE-W59znF3c&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/WE-W59znF3c&rel=0</a>

Part4:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/VvmCnYWQUR8&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/VvmCnYWQUR8&rel=0</a>

Part5:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/d96_AQVHhAc&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/d96_AQVHhAc&rel=0</a>

Part6:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/g2J5KRqm2eU&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/g2J5KRqm2eU&rel=0</a>

Hope this helps settle the argument?

Hedgehogirl.

<edited by Derek to add all the direct links instead of searching to make it easier for everyone>

[rtypus]

Derek

One thing you must remember is that it's not "just" your 600 hedgehogs that you've helped to save (most of which we're sure went on to live happy lives without running into foxes).

There are many many people on the forum who've managed to help hedgehogs, all over the country, and many of those hedgehogs (including the ones in our garden) would not have been saved without your help and inspiration.  Please don't lose heart!

Elaine & Richard

[Derek]

The fact that you don't see foxes attacking hedgehogs, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Until I actually saw it with my own eyes I wouldn't have believed it.
 
I wish it wasn't true, because very many hedgehogs would still be alive.

I always used to tell people "Foxes are not a problem or danger to hedgehogs.A fox will take and kill a baby, a weak or an old hedgehog but an adult will curl up and be protected by its spines". I was wrong.

I wrote my article based on the facts and my experiences of recent years. Ever since we started in 2002, we have been so puzzled by the number of hedgehogs with similar injuries. 

These were not just isolated incidents. We saw the same injuries on hedgehogs from a wide area: Loughton, Epping, Harlow, Waltham Cross, Hertford, Romford, Dagenham, Walthamstow, Leytonstone, Bishops Stortford, Basildon.  There wasn't any obvious link to what was causing these injuries.

Some people said to me that shortly before finding the hedgehogs, they had heard foxes squealing and barking. I dismissed it and said "Foxes don't cause those sort of injuries".

Being hit by a car would have caused much more severe injuries and not only broken and crushed hind legs. Dog bites are different with deep puncture wounds and tears to the flesh on the back.

It was only when I saw the fox actually attack the hedgehogs in my garden causing the same injuries, that we had the answer. It took several years and a lot of victims (dead and severely maimed hedgehogs) to finally understand the cause.

 The first time I definitely knew of an attack by a fox in our garden was last autumn. We heard bleating, rushed out and saw the fox jumping the back fence with a baby hedgehog in its mouth and 2 other babies lying on the ground dead. One with a crushed skull and one with its guts ripped out. They must have just left the nest and started to explore. Both had bits of biscuits in their mouths, so they had just come from our feeding station and were going back to their nest when they were killed.

We all repeat mechanically and hide behind the no-longer-true cliche "Let nature take its course". We altered this course a long time ago. By doing so we gave some species the upper hand. We encouraged and helped them thrive to the detriment of others whom we are now condemning to death and extinction.
Equally sad is that we refuse to do the right thing by trying to redress the balance.

We drove the wildlife out of the countryside by building on it. There is none of the foxes' natural prey in our towns. No voles, rabbits, or other small easily caught mammals. The foxes have turned on the only animal still in some of our gardens, the hedgehog.

 Hedgehogs come high on the long list of victims of our interfering and it won't be long until hedgehogs are completely wiped out. Some estimates say that within 10 years there will be no more hedgehogs. When that time comes many of us will feel guilty for not having done more to protect their fragile existence. For not jumping to their defence and for not giving them help when they needed it most. But by that time it will be too late because the hedgehog will have lost the battle to survive. In hindsight we will realise that it wouldn't have taken too much time and effort.

We stand and watch and do nothing. We lack the will and the honesty to admit there is a problem, and the courage to solve it.

Foxes do not need special protection or help and encouragement to survive. On the contrary, they thrive and flourish in our urban environment. Hedgehogs do not, they cannot, and that is why they are not the winners. We have already upset the natural balance to such a degree that it will never recover. The conditions we have created are beneficial to foxes and detrimental to hedgehogs.


The badger population has recovered and is increasing very rapidly.They are moving into areas where they have never been before. I wish I could say the same about hedgehogs but I can't. In spite of all efforts, the numbers of hedgehogs are still dropping. The big picture does not look good for them.

In normal situations when a predator moves into the area, the first defence of the prey is to move away. That can't happen with hedgehogs. They have nowhere to go. We build artificial barriers to stop them moving. Walls and fences block the hedgehogs.They are trapped and slaughtered one by one

[Marg]

Very well explained,Derek.I too am shocked by what is happening,as for many years we have all been led to believe that is only badgers that are a hedgehogs enemy(apart from cars and strimmers).

As you so rightly say,it is,as usual,man that has created this nightmare of a problem,giving the natural world less and less space to co-exist.

I feel so sorry for your dilemma now,but as rtypus says,please do not give up,the hedgehogs still need you,and would be in an even worse predicament without your skill and care.I do sincerely hope that somehow you can find the strength to carry on.

[Thomlinson]

The assumptions you are making about general fox behaviour are entirely unjustified and unsupported. If you are to make a claim like this and publicise it in this way then you should have far more complete proof than observations of one fox in one garden. It is possible that this particular fox has found that this method works for hunting, however that does not mean that the entire fox population acts like this and you are abusing your authority to make claims that have no solid basis. It seems to me that 'Hedgehogs Killed and Maimed by foxes' is more about putting down one species than about saving another.

[Hedgehogirl]

Well, know we know.
Something now needs to be done, I can't believe that they may be gone in only a matter of years.
We need to get word around alot more.
It's great what your doing Derek, if it wasn't for people like you then the Hedgehogs would be far worse off.

[timmoore46]

The assumptions you are making about general fox behaviour are entirely unjustified and unsupported. If you are to make a claim like this and publicise it in this way then you should have far more complete proof than observations of one fox in one garden. It is possible that this particular fox has found that this method works for hunting, however that does not mean that the entire fox population acts like this and you are abusing your authority to make claims that have no solid basis. It seems to me that 'Hedgehogs Killed and Maimed by foxes' is more about putting down one species than about saving another.

I have a problem with the contents of this post.

Is it relevant that perhaps only some home county foxes have found this way of getting dinner/entertaining themselves?   The observation of the event and logged injuries received at rescue centres demonstrate that some do.  In my mind without question.

As research into wild animal behaviour  is in the hands of various Universities not Mr Tomlinson ( I trust ) this new trend (or not) will be subject to impartial consideration by many dedicated professional naturalists.

I'll be very interested in what they have to say in the fullness of time.

Tim

[susancee]

I lived for many years in a very rural area and was surrounded by foxes.

Have no doubt that there are "rogue foxes" who kill just for the sake of killing.  I have witnessed one in partiular who was well known for entering gardens and killing cats (as mentioned in previous post) when surrounded by common land and forest just yards away well over-populated by wild rabbits - thus in an area with plenty of food. 
Another fox hand-reared by my next door neighbour when released had very little fear of humans, his main habitat was gardens  and again would kill apparently just for the sake of it.   
Sadly something had to be done about these two foxes in particular.   Yes, I found it distressing but I found it more distressing to have a much loved pet torn to shreds. That is not normal fox behaviour, but unfortunately not all foxes meet the norm. 
Relocating the fox just moves the problem on to somewhere else, it doesn't solve it
To completely fox-proof a garden or land is often not possible, they are clever creatues, and again just gives the problem to some-one else!

I defy anyone to say with their hands on hearts that under similar circumstances to Derek's and my own experience  when animals that have been cared for, nursed and loved, whether they be wild life or pets, that they would not be distressed and seek ways to rid themselves of a rogue fox.

Yes man has created the problem over the years, the fox does not have a natural predator (unlike the hedgehog who is prey to many)  - and no,  I do not condone the awful barbaric cruel blood-"sport" of hunting with dogs.
As Derek so rightly says the attitude of "now let nature take its course" does not work. It is burying our head in the sands and refusing to believe there is a problem. 
In an ideal world man and nature would and could co-exist together, but sadly in this over-populated country where more and more green and rural areas are being built upon this is no longer an ideal world.
Sue

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