Slugs and Snails

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[Derek]

Slugs and snails

I have written this explanation because  BHPS  have criticized me for making it very prominent on the website that Slugs and Snails are dangerous to hedgehogs

A very wrong and harmful idea has been perpetuated for a long time. The idea that hedgehogs are good at keeping slug numbers down, that slugs and snails are their ONE AND ONLY DIET, and they are nothing more than slug-eating machines.
This is wrong. Very wrong.

I have to fight this way of thinking EVERY SINGLE DAY, since it does not help the hedgehogs whatsoever.

Most people know nothing about lungworm infestation and its complications, and I educate people about this issue all the time.
After they find out the truth and the grim reality behind the 'Slugs and snails' too-well-known cliché', they start feeding the hedgehog with the same food that they give their pet cats or dogs. They always tell me; " We did not know. We wish we did ",

Hedgehogs do eat some slugs and snails, but normally their diet will be mainly caterpillars, beetles, millipedes, centipedes and other insects. Only about 5% of their diet will be slugs and snails. They eat the tiny black baby slugs and small snails. Given a choice they won't eat tough, slimy, leathery large slugs. Unfortunately most gardens don't have anything else for them to eat except slugs and snails. We get a spray gun at the first sign of any insect or grow sterile plants that don't attract butterflies, beetles or other insects etc. No butterflies means no caterpillars for the hedgehogs to eat.
 
What I urge, encourage and ask people to do is extremely beneficial for the hedgehogs' health and survival, and I hope that many more will follow suit, offering these animals a healthy, safe, nutritious, tasty alternative to slugs and snails.
 
It's time for reforms in the way we regard the hedgehog's future and survival. Reforms bring change. I know that the changes we bring are positive.
 
Some people ring me and say they want a hedgehog to rid their garden of  the 'slimeys'. I tell them exactly what is on the website: "Under NO circumstance will we give a hedgehog to anyone who wants a hedgehog just to control the slugs". And I explain them why, That the hedgehog's SOLE purpose is NOT ridding people's gardens of slugs, the price they pay for this is very high.

Can't we just love and enjoy them without thinking of their usefulness to us?
I'm sure most people love and want their presence in their gardens because hedgehogs are harmless, inoffensive, good natured, delightful little animals.
 
My wife and I take their life, future and welfare very seriously. We are very passionate about the importance of their conservation and their plight to survive, and do all we can to ensure their wellbeing and maximise their chances to survive as a species that is already endangered and whose future is very uncertain and bleak.
 
The 'Slugs and snails diet' stereotype is repeated ad nauseam.
 
Of all parasitic diseases, nematode infestations of the lungs are the most frequent fatal diseases in hedgehogs and claim a high percentage of their lives.
 
The Hedgehog population is going down at an alarming rate, so, ask yourselves "Can we really afford to lose so many just to lungworms and pneumonia alone?"
 
And, at the end of the day, what is wrong with encouraging people to put down 'safe food' for them?
Are we scared that hedgehogs will become too numerous and too healthy?
 
Offering them shelter, safe, nutritious food and a bowl of water will go a long way in keeping more individuals alive.
 
The 'Slugs and snails diet ' - stereotype belongs in the past.
In light of their decline, modern research and findings, this antiquated view should be dropped and replaced with an up-to-date, realistic, much kinder, positive and helpful approach to the hedgehog's daily struggle to survive in the hostile, modern world.
 
Times have changed, and we must change with them

We should learn from RSPB, who encourage people to feed the birds AT ALL TIMES, to help them survive and increase their numbers. We need to do exactly the same, Put food and water down at all times for the hedgehogs.
 
Obviously, they love their birds more than we do our hedgehogs.

At the moment, I have a little girl, ( 200 g), fighting to live, struggling for breath.
She was found curled up in the sun, in the middle of a park, with severe lung infestation and pneumonia.
 
The first antibiotic didn't work, her only chance now is a second one.  If the second one fails as well, she will have to be put down.
If, at any moment, her situation deteriorates any further, I shall spare her the suffering.
 
So, all of you out there, who regard the hedgehog as only an 'organic pest controller', ask yourselves, "Are those plants really so precious? Are they really worth the lives of so many hedgehogs you are so willing to sacrifice?"

[Sarah_and_Mart]

Very well and positively said.

I'm aware slug pellets are bad but what I did not know (or need to confirm) is about nematodes.  There is a product called Nemaslug which kills slugs by using nematodes. The manufacturer states: "Nemaslug is harmless to children pets and wildlife. Nemaslug is so green that birds & hedgehogs can happily eat slugs after application."

Is this right ? 

[SoftTouch]

I hear you Derek. Yesterday I had a lady at the front door asking if I had a spare hedgehog as the slugs were eating her Chocolate Cosmos. It beggars belief! Not that they don't understand about hogs and slugs, that's a myth that's got to be squashed, but the fact that they think you'll just hand over a hog to them.

She now is in no doubt about it and has gone to the supermarket for my patented slug remedy.

There are a couple of apparently safe slug and snail removers but I'm never too sure about it. The easiest way to get rid of slugs is to stick a small heap of cat biscuits in various locations round the garden. Go out after dark with a bucket and gloves. The slugs will come from all over the garden to eat the biscuits. Pick them up, stick them in the bucket then dispose of how ever you feel comfortable.

This also has the advantage of keeping them off your prized plants. I've managed to grow un-nibbled Hostas for the first time in years.

I also let Honesty grow in clumps among the shrubs. The caterpillars love it. There's one out there now with over 60 on it.

PS. I don't recommend the brick method for slug disposal. I don't know about your slugs but ours are huge and whacking them with a brick would get awfully messy.

[susancee]

Extremely well said, Derek!  Could this post go into the "fixed" section?


I know nothing about nematodes, so have just been doing a little reading up on them, sounds good..........but cynic that I am, I find it very difficult to accept that something that is only supposed to kill one species won't have some sort of detrimental effect on another.

Sue x

[Derek]

nematode is a generic name for worms

 Lungworms are parasitic nematode worms of the order Strongylida that infest the lungs of vertebrates  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lungworms

In other words Lungworms are parasitic worms that live in the hedgehogs lungs. Also very frequent in Horses, Cattle, Sheep, Donkeys etc

Now also more common in Dogs & Cats. Read this article in Daily Mail 2nd September 2008

Garden snail and slug populations have flourished during the damp conditions. But they can harbour a dangerous parasite.

When eaten by dogs and cats, the lungworm carried by the slugs and snails can infect the bloodstream and cause coughing and breathing problems. In some cases the condition can prove fatal.

From Oxford Dictionary:
Nematode:
 Designating, pertaining to, or characteristic of worms of the phylum Nematoda, comprising numerous slender, unsegmented, parasitic or free-living worms, including roundworms, hookworms, pinworms, threadworms, Guinea worms, etc.

---------------------------------------------------------
Excerpted from Oxford Talking Dictionary
Copyright © 1998 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Nematodes are the most numerous multicellular animals on earth. A handful of soil will contain thousands of the microscopic worms, many of them parasites of insects, plants or animals.   

The nematodes or roundworms  are one of the most common phyla of animals, with over 80,000 different described species (of which over 15,000 are parasitic).  Further, there are a great many parasitic forms, including pathogens in most plants, animals, and also in humans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nematode

[Hedgehogirl]

I would not feed the Hedgehogs I looked after any snails or slugs from the Garden, just in case they had been posioned.

[Derek]

When treating hedgehogs for pneumonia, I normally use Baytril. If that doesn't show some signs of improvement after a couple of days, then change immediately to Synulox. Don't wait

The last couple of cases I have had, had no response whatsoever to Baytril  but Synulox started working immediately.

Synulox drops orally twice daily
By injection once daily, 0.01ml per 100 grams bodyweight. ( A hedgehog of 500 grams weight will need 0.04ml of Synulox injection)

[Ruby]

We put dried hedgehog food out every evening, together with clean water.  The slugs are coming from all directions to eat the hedgehog food.... hedgie came, the plate had slugs on, hedgie ate the hog food and calmly walked off for a drink, leaving the slugs to finish the crumbs. 

I can say I don't blame hedgie, as the slugs were big ones and not very appetising to say the least.  That is one good way of enticing the slugs, then they can be dealt with as you wish.

[Sarah_and_Mart]

I typed 'hedgehog and slugs' into Google, and researched the results from the first page alone:

Good to see at the top of the list is the Epping Forest Hedgehog Rescue site, which clearly shows the dangers of hedgehogs eating slugs.

However, it's not good seeing the remainder of the results, some of which are from organisations that should know better ?:

British Hedgehog Preservation Society
http://www.britishhedgehogs.org.uk/FAQS/general.htm
http://www.britishhedgehogs.org.uk/FAQS/helping_hedgehogs.htm
"The hedgehog is known as ‘the gardener’s friend’ as it will eat slugs"
"supplementing their natural diet of slugs, snails"

BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/7513512.stm
"Hedgehogs needed to control slugs"
"A gardener at a National Trust estate in Ceredigion is offering to re-home stray hedgehogs in the hope they will control his snail and slug problem"
"the spiky slug-eaters are seen as an organic way of solving the problem"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A510931
"They eat slugs, snails, insects and even mice. The legs of the hedgehog are quite long; they can run very fast when necessary, such as to catch a mouse."
"the hedgehog works for you, clearing your garden of slugs and snails"
"leaving behind a garden cleared of slugs and snails. You probably won't see a slug or snail for about a year"

BBC Breathing Places:
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/breathingplaces/animals/hedgehog.shtml)
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/breathingplaces/doonething/simple/hedgehog_home.shtml)
"generally known as the gardener's friend as they'll eat lots of garden pests such as slugs, snails"
"They'll help to keep your slugs and snails at bay"

BBC Science & Nature:
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/animals/wildbritain/gardenwildlife/myspace/content.shtml?11)
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/wildfacts/factfiles/193.shtml
"Hedgehogs eat slugs, snails"
"let them help you keep snails and slugs from damaging your plants"

Hogwatch: (http://www.hogwatch.org.uk/Downloads/hogwatchfact%20sheetinformation.pdf)
2 pictures shows what hedgehogs eat are slugs and snails

Gardeners World Blog: (http://blog.gardenersworld.com/2008/08/08/jm-hedgehogs-08082008/)
"They eat a lot of slugs, so I’ll look forward to a sharp decline in the slug population on the plot."

Mail Online: (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/gardening/article-1051300/Battling-slugs-snails-Its-job-Mr-Tiggywinkle.html)
"Battling with slugs and snails? It's a job for Mr. Tiggywinkle"
"As a last resort in her losing battle with slugs and snails, Constance Craig Smith had to call in a rather prickly expert  -  her own hedgehog"
"Hedgehogs are said to have a prodigious appetite for slugs and snails"
"small children ringing the doorbell and demanding to see the hedgehog"
An audacious story of someone obtaining a hedgehog from a rescue centre for the said purpose.

London Wildlife Trust (http://www.wildlondon.org.uk/Portals/0/News/tabid/71/mid/414/newsid414/90/Default.aspx)
"hedgehogs simply love to eat slugs"
"we need these spiny mammals, they are crucial in our bid to control slugs"

Hedgehog Rescue: (http://www.hedgehogrescue.org/gardeners.html)
"HEDGEHOGS, ... nature's way of controlling slugs and snails"

Crash Hedgehog Hospital: (http://www.hedgehogs.org.uk/facts/page4.html)
"if you can find a few slugs for them they will always be welcomed"

Suffolk Wildlife Trust: (http://www.suffolkwildlifetrust.org/ca/factsheets/hedgehogs.pdf)
"Hedgehogs eat vast quantities of slugs"

Animal Corner: (http://www.animalcorner.co.uk/britishwildlife/hedgehog.html)
"Its favourite food is slugs and worms, they may eat 40 or more slugs a night."

Wildlife Trust: (http://www.wildlifetrust.org.uk/facts/hedge.htm)
"...slugs and snails are the hedgehog's favourite food" (amongst other things)
"Hedgehogs are the gardener's friend because they eat slugs and snails"


This is just from the first page of google results alone. Clearly there is a lot of re-educating to do !

[paulinemiller10]

Just been reading your write up about slugs Derek, I think a lot of people think of getting rid of their slugs with a prickly friend, but slugs and snails do make up part of their diet, I watched one of mine first eating a slug, and then a snail, and there was fresh chicken and dry food right next to the slugs and snails, the slugs and snails come for a feed too, so hoggy has a ready meal, I v also watched them eat earth worms and they love black beetles.
Knowing how fussy hedgehogs are, I don t think they would eat slug pellets unless they were very hungry, but the slugs and other insects eat them, and hoggy comes along and eats the poisoned slugs and insects, and I m wondering how much it could affect our hedgehogs.

I live in the centre of town and I don t see many ticks,fleas or ringworm, and I have never had an injured hedgehog, but they do get worms, and I m wondering if there are more worms in gardens as most people keep dogs and cats, and maybe the worms are spread this way, could it be there are a lot more slugs and snails carrying these worms now, so again not doing our hedgehogs any good.

Slugs and snails which may be infested with worms, or have been poisoned with slug pellets are not good for our hedgehogs,  but unless people have cared for sick hedgehogs, they would just think they are good for getting rid of slugs and snails.

[Derek]

We know that hedgehogs will always eat some slugs and snails but we have to put a stop to the idea that ALL they eat is slugs and snails

Only about 5% of a typical hedgehog "natural" diet would normally be slugs & snails, with the majority being beetles & caterpillars

we all know that we have wiped out the beetle & caterpillar population in most gardens & need to feed hedgehogs with cat/dog food etc

All of us that deal with hedgehogs see  a massive increase in  lungworms & other parasites

That is only due to eating bad food because there isn't anything else

this bit from my first post says it all

Hedgehogs do eat some slugs and snails, but normally their diet will be mainly caterpillars, beetles, millipedes, centipedes and other insects. Only about 5% of their diet will be slugs and snails. They eat the tiny black baby slugs and small snails. Given a choice they won't eat tough, slimy, leathery large slugs. Unfortunately most gardens don't have anything else for them to eat except slugs and snails. We get a spray gun at the first sign of any insect or grow sterile plants that don't attract butterflies, beetles or other insects etc. No butterflies means no caterpillars for the hedgehogs to eat.
 
What I urge, encourage and ask people to do is extremely beneficial for the hedgehogs' health and survival, and I hope that many more will follow suit, offering these animals a healthy, safe, nutritious, tasty alternative to slugs and snails.
 
It's time for reforms in the way we regard the hedgehog's future and survival. Reforms bring change. I know that the changes we bring are positive.
 
Some people ring me and say they want a hedgehog to rid their garden of  the 'slimeys'. I tell them exactly what is on the website: "Under NO circumstance will we give a hedgehog to anyone who wants a hedgehog just to control the slugs". And I explain them why, That the hedgehog's SOLE purpose is NOT ridding people's gardens of slugs, the price they pay for this is very high.

Can't we just love and enjoy them without thinking of their usefulness to us?
I'm sure most people love and want their presence in their gardens because hedgehogs are harmless, inoffensive, good natured, delightful little animals.

[Derek]

I have just come back now from wildlife hospital. I took a 380g male in.  he was found wandering down the middle of the  road at midday today He should have been about 550g by his size. Bad breathing, Terrible diarrhoea, Horrible smell.

Luckily vet was still there and waited for me, so we did the following: Gave Fluids, Antibiotics, Worm treatment  and because he had diarrhoea in the basket, we took a sample and analysed it. 

What I saw was beyond belief. Hundreds of worms and eggs and larvae. Lots of wriggling Capillaria and Crenosoma and loads of unidentified worms. Imagine living like this in this cold. He was  so cinched in with legs like matchsticks.

While I was there the vet did a PM on a small hog that had died last night having been in for 2 days with pneumonia & very obvious lungworms. When she cut open the lungs, all you could see  was  a white mass of worms.

The lungs themselves were rock hard, shrivelled and like a walnut. There was no normal spongy tissue left so the lungs couldn't expand and get any air in. In other words, the hedgehog couldn't breath at all.  What a way to die!

After the holidays we must seriously think of way to get it over to the whole country, how vitally important it is to feed the hedgehogs so they aren't forced to eat only slugs and snails.

You can see for yourselves, from the way things are going hedgehogs aren't going to last another 5 years, let alone the previous estimates.

That is all we have, less than 5 years to do our best to save them or let them die out

At the moment I am working on a design for an A4 poster saying hedgehogs are dying out and they need urgent help to survive.

[SoftTouch]

Nice idea Derek but posters aren't going to work, we can't get enough of them out there. We need to get the BHPS and the EHRG working on a campaign like the RSPB feed the birds.

[Sarah_and_Mart]

and the One Show and Paul O'Grady and Autumnwatch/Springwatch and all the wildlife tv programmes going need to get the right message out

agree it needs clear direction and a big official statement right from the top bods

[Derek]

Got one hedgehog still dropping weight & green, smelly poo again and very weak. The smell is a horrible snaily, grassy, dead fishy type smell.

The amount of dead worms she is still expelling, I don't know if her weak body can cope with the toxins coming from the number of dead worms.

I took several faecal samples & took them to wildlife hospital a couple of days ago. They have just rung with results ( Vet is there this morning so doing the sample testing), massive numbers of crenosoma eggs and larvae

She has been wormed with Telmin & Panacur. These anthelmentics only kill the adult worms and hatched larvae, not the eggs or hatchlings still inside the egg case. We need a multiple course to get them all.

We know that the life cycle of the worm is 3 weeks. so we need to do 3 courses of Telmin. 5 days when first come in. Another 5 day course, 15 days later and then a 3rd course 20 days after that. They also need at least 2 courses of panacur in amongst that. That has got them all in the past

I am going to start another Telmin course today and am going to have to very seriously consider thinking about using Levamisole instead of Panacur & Telmin in the future. But that means taking them all to the vet for injections every 3 days for 3 injections

They have such a massive numbers of parasites when coming in AND that is only due to the diet.  From the moment they leave the nest all they find out there to eat is slugs & snails.

We must get the word over to everybody to feed the hedgehogs. I am sure we will get less dead and ill ones, if they get good food right from the start. If we can decrease the mortality then we can increase their numbers all over the country. Just giving good food is the most important thing we can do

This LINK shows all about lungworms with very good pictures

[SoftTouch]

I'm still having problems with Giles. He's been on Levacide and he's still coughing the darn things up. That's 6 weeks now.

[Derek]

That shouldn't happen Gill

6 weeks still  coughing up lungworms suggests a much deeper problem

how much levicide did he have
did you use bisolvon at the same time

[SoftTouch]

Standard dose, same as Croft and listed in Les Stocker's book and Kay's book. He's had Bisolvon on his food as well.

It is much much less than it was but the cough still happens once a day, doesn't last long though, it used to go on for ages. The residue in the poo is way less than it was and most of the time all looks normal. I think he's getting there but just had a huge load on board. He was found on farmland whereas all the others came from residential areas.

The vet has checked his breathing and his chest and they're OK. He does have a slightly runny nose though.

[jolly_wozname]

Well said Derek.

If they loved 'em so much I wouldn't have had a problem with slugs eating my hog food with impunity (the hogs simply ignore them).

Perhaps here would be a good point to put a link / add a list of recommended off the shelf food. I have only ever used :

Spikes Biscuits : £3.50 / kg
Wild Things Hedgehog biscuits (with dried banana which they seem to love?!?!) : £4.00 / kg

Those per kilo prices are on a par with fresh chicken prices. However, with times as they are, I was looking to Lidl-ise my hog-shopping. Any suggestions?

[Derek]

any cat biscuits are fine

I use royal canin & Iams mainly but try anything they will eat

obviously they need less of the better quality biscuits than the cheaper ones with lots of cereal in

[SoftTouch]

Those per kilo prices are on a par with fresh chicken prices. However, with times as they are, I was looking to Lidl-ise my hog-shopping. Any suggestions?

Don't use the Lidl biscuits. Neither my hogs nor the cats would eat them.

I use Arden Grange Chicken and Rice biscuits. £7.99 for 2.5kilos in Waitrose. You can buy a breeder bag 15kg for about £34 from Berriewood on the web.

I have a large bag of Hills biscuits I got cheap at the pet shop but Gizmo won't touch them. He wants his AG or he trashes his cage and generally goes nuts. When he came out and sniffed the Hills he just sat there and hissed for 10 minutes.

[jolly_wozname]

Cheers Derek & ST,

I'll be sure to look into ingredients if I go the cat biscuit route.

Gizmo sounds quite a card, tho to be frank trashing runs is something I have grown to expect. My hogs clearly all hate me. I admit it, I'm a terrible father. 

[jolly_wozname]

I'm new to cat food, so forgive the silly questions:

"Go-Cat Complete for Kittens" is described as "with Chicken, Carrots and Milk nuggets". Is that likely to be bad for our spikey friends?

Link - http://www.go-cat.co.uk/products/kitten.asp

[Sarah_and_Mart]

anyone watching Paul O'Grady right now ? (Fri 27th March 2009), just talked about hedgehogs

"feed them milk, cat food, slugs"

"make a wild corner in your garden to encourage lots of slugs"

"they love slugs, yummy"

 

[guest]

I saw this and couldn't believe my ears!  You can see it on the catch-up site.  Hope this link works!  Just move along to 21.29 for the hedgehog bit.  Maybe we should contact them with correct information on feeding?  http://www.channel4.com/catchup-player/player.htm?brandId=the-paul-ogrady-show&contractId=44724&episodeId=25

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